The Tithing Perspective of Grace

Goodness...was surfing on Choo Thomas and tithing when I suddenly chanced upon ANOTHER forum that speaks ill on the act of tithing.

http://65.108.220.179/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8&start=0

And as normal, my reply

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Whatever is said, let's reconsider the act of tithing from the point of a biblical principle.

Definition of principle: Principal is an adjective meaning "foremost" or "major," a noun meaning "chief official," or, in finance, a noun meaning "capital sum." Principle is a noun only, meaning "rule" or "axiom." Her principal reasons for confessing were her principles of right and wrong.

Now the principle of tithing appears right from the beginning of the bible, even in the book of Gensis, in the garden of Eden.

Let me list some examples from the book of Genesis that speaks of tithing and the principle of firstfruits/firstborn.
a) The tithing of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (Gen 2:16)
b) Abel tithing of the firstborn sheep (Gen 4:4)
c) Abram tithes to Melchizedek (Gen 14:20)
d) Abraham sacrifice of Isaac as firstborn burnt offering to God's promise to Abraham being the father of many nations (Gen 17:5).

Since it is a principle, that tithing is a norm and a Godly one as well, is it not also logical to include it in the law of behavior?

Let's question the rational of the above. If one says that murder is wrong, then is it logical to include in the law of God too since the law is to guide people towards good and not evil.

Let's look at Andrew's bible verse here:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices - mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former." (Matt 23:23, NIV)."

True, I agree these are matter of the law that Justice, Mercy and faithfulness is inclusive in the law BECAUSE they are Godly principles. Does that mean that Justice, Mercy and faithfulness are needless when Christ redeemed us from the law? Oh God forbid!!

Jesus teaches that law demands justice, mercy and faithfulness because they are God's standard of conduct, so is the act of tithing. If Jesus lumps it together, then tithing, justice, mercy and faithfulness are given equal weightage since he already said, "You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former." In short, we all should practise tithing, mercy, justice and faithfulness.

If we are to go about shouting that since Christ redeemed us from the law of being good not to tithe, then by the same token we are freed not to have justice, mercy and faithfulness. I really do hope you read the verse carefully and see what the Lord is really saying and not by your own conclusion what you want it to say.

Contrary to what was proposed, this tithing verse is there for all to see and one mention of it doesn't mean that we could erase it off from memory. It is there for a reason, God protects His book through 2 millenia of persecution for a purpose and this verse has its purpose. If it mentioned once it does not mean that it is not the truth.

Like I said, contrary to what was said in the post, there is a verse in the NT that speaks of tithing.

[color=orange]Hebrews Chapter 7:8

(ASV) And here men that die receive tithes; but there one, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

(BBE) Now at the present time, men over whom death has power take the tenth; but then it was taken by one of whom it is witnessed that he is living.

(CEV) Priests are given a tenth of what people earn. But all priests die, except Melchizedek, and the Scriptures teach that he is alive.

(KJV+) And2532 here5602, 3303 men444 that die599 receive2983 tithes;1181 but1161 there1563 he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed3140 that3754 he liveth.2198

(YLT) and here, indeed, men who die do receive tithes, and there he , who is testified to that he was living, [/color]

It clearly shows here that tithing is important because the act speaks of Jesus who received our tithes in heaven.

Now I have to continue saying somethings with regards of the splitting of the old and new testaments.

I just use this verse to demonstrate that the splitting of the two testaments is unjustified and surely is not what God intended.

Malachi Chapter 3:6 "I am the Lord and I do not change."

There we have it.

The summary of what has being said

a) God do not change
b) His laws and principles are everlasting to those who do not believe
c) His laws and principles are everlasting to believers but we are given life despite our inability to meet those laws.
d) We still practise mercy, justice and faithfulness and since Jesus places the act of tithing as important as mercy, justice and faithfulness, then we should practise the later since we hold dear to the same principles.
e) The act of tithing is a principle that is mentioned from the first book of the bible to the New Testament in Hebrews.

Now...am I giving all of you a guilt trip because you do not tithe?

Well no because if Jesus can tell the thief that he is with Him on paradise when both of them are on the cross, I won't expect a born again believer on the death bed to tithe before He is allowed access to heaven.

No! The promise of salvation is based on one thing only: Believe Jesus and the work on the cross.

So why do the act of tithing came to the fore?

For 2 reasons if you look at Malachi 3:10

Bring in all the tithe unto the treasure-house, And there is food in My house; When ye have tried Me, now, with this, Said Jehovah of Hosts, Do not I open to you the windows of heaven? Yea, I have emptied on you a blessing till there is no space.
(Malachi 3:10)

a) For Lord God to bless us further

Did Jesus die for us while we are righteous or sinners? God already bless us with things that we do not deserve, so much so even Job can complain why evil people still can run afoul of the law and get away with it! It is God's huge grace, OUR undeserved favour from HIM to feed us while we are still sinners.

So now we are saved, does that mean He would not provide if we do not tithe? Of course not! He will STILL bless us.

So why the need to tithe then? So that we can allow God to bless us more so that we can bless more to the people around us! It is not just 10% more, it is more than 100%! It is over the brim, heaven emptied blessings that over floweth with good things!!

Not just that, tithing allow God to protect our work and will cause the devourer to leave what is our's alone.

God provides since He commands us not to worry. The tithe shows FAITH in HIS provision, in HIS promise and in HIS blessings which is MORE than enough.

b) To feed his house.

The storehouse of Malachi's time and the church of the church age is different in form but the substance is the same. The house of the Lord which is the temple, is now the church and ourselves for the Lord lives in all of us.

Now if we can squarely tell our pastors to live in faith. Why don't we work for employers in faith as well instead of demanding salary?

The pastors are here for us to become our spiritual feeder. We come to church to get spiritual food, which is our storehouse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now if tithing is such a bad thing after all and I agree it is misused by some ministers to 'extort' money, then it is just plain old blackmailing.

Jesus died on the cross to enable us to enjoy HIS divine exchange, His Health, His Riches, His Power, His Wisdom, His Love for our lack in every area of our lives.

Honestly, do God really need the 10% from us? No!! Of course NOT! He owns the universes, what more can we give Him? There has got to be another reason for wanting the tithe since He already said He does not change, so His accusation of believers stealing from Him through withholding the tithe is still valid.

So why we still need to give the tithe? The tithe is God's abounding grace to allow HIM to bless us even more! So is that a good thing? Of course it is!

I also agree with the brother that we should not just give 10% we should give HIM EVERYTHING. But can I ask, how can you give him EVERYTHING when we are squabbling over a measly 10%? How can a heart that holds dear to 10% of just the financial part of our lives, able to give everything readily from every spore of our lives? This is one question we all have to answer.

Show faith in the little things first (you may call it a giving instead of a tithe), and your faith will grow in your giving of your 100% of EVERYTHING not just in finance because you allow God to grow it for you! (Come to rememberance of the parable of the 10 talents: Matt 25)

Whatever I am going to say from hence is not about the act but about the heart.

Let's turn to Mathew 6:24

`None is able to serve two lords, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to the one, and despise the other; ye are not able to serve God and Mammon.

(Matthew 6:24)

And then to the Parable of the Rich Man Mathew 19:16-30

Please take note of this particular verse:

Jesus said to him, `If thou dost will to be perfect, go away, sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me.' And the young man, having heard the word, went away sorrowful, for he had many possessions;

(Matthew 19:21-22)

And lastly the Story about Taxes to Caesar (Matthew 22:15-22)

And take note of this verse

they say to him, `Caesar's;' then saith he to them, `Render therefore the things of Caesar to Caesar, and the things of God to God;'
(Matthew 22:21)

If the thing I preach about the principle of tithing, does Matt 22:21 that appears in 3 of the 4 Gospels mean anything? It dovetails nicely. Have we all wondered why are the story about tax to caesar is mentioned not once but three times? It speaks of importance.

Now we are to give back to God what is his and this is in New Testament! Does it dovetail with Malachi 3 as well; That whatever is God has to be given back and since it is not given back is it considered as stealing?

The reason why I asked readers to flipped through these verses is that I want to show that the whole New Testament puts the intention of the heart as paramount because it affects the level of faith. The heart that holds dear to something will put more faith in it. Isn't that true?

Next is the story about the 3 servants. If you can see, the first 2 servants are given accolades because they did what is right with the money given to them. Note the heart of the 3rd servant. He says the master is hard that's why he do not dare to do anything to it. The master speaks of God who give us talents (in money and in our talents) so as to be use for His glory. If we view our generous God with such a suspicion that He is NOT generous, what did the Master in the parable do? He pass more blessings to the one who is faithful.

The story of the rich man speaks of the heart as well. Here he told Jesus that he has done EVERYTHING that the Law requires (including the giving of the tithe) but when it comes to giving his ALL he cannot do it. Why? The Bible did not give the answer and it just says that he has a lot of possessions. He walked away disappointed because there's only one logical answer: He value his possessions more than eternal life.

Even Jesus preached that we cannot have 2 masters. We either serve one and despise the other. That's why there a need to tithe because it is a test not for God's benefit but for OUR benefit since God is already so rich so why he would want our measly 105?. It is for OUR benefit to allow us to serve the Lord instead of Mammon, to allow God to bless us even more!

So there will be other reasons for not owning up to the principle of tithing.

Consider these verses

and the sting of the death is the sin, and the power of the sin the law;
(1 Corinthians 15:56)

Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law, having become for us a curse, for it hath been written, `Cursed is every one who is hanging on a tree,'
(Galatians 3:13)

Since we are redeemed from the effects of sin that is the curse of the law (we are not redeemed from law...it is the law that shows sin and sin cursesd us with death and separation from God).

Now we have escaped the effects of sin which is the law. The law REQUIRES us to do something which does not show the true INTENTION of the heart. People can do something but do not do it sincerely. But the works of the redeemed heart will do something, that's the basis of James epistle.

and he who did look into the perfect law--that of liberty, and did continue there, this one--not a forgetful hearer becoming, but a doer of work--this one shall be happy in his doing.
(James 1:25)

So we all look to the perfect law of perfect freedom, and that perfect freedom allow us to do the important things of the Lord (justice, mercy, faithfulness and tithing), we shall be happy in the doing.

THIS brothers and sisters in Christ, is that tithing is a work of faith out of a heart of faith that shows that Christ is alive and well today!

If we are so readily to hide behind GRACE since we are not in the law, let me tell you a 'bad' news. Under grace we are required out of our hearts to give more than the law

Just consider this verses from Christ

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But now I tell you: do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, let him slap your left cheek too. And if someone takes you to court to sue you for your shirt, let him have your coat as well. And if one of the occupation troops forces you to carry his pack one mile, carry it two miles. When someone asks you for something, give it to him; when someone wants to borrow something, lend it to him.
(Matthew 5:38-42)

Isn't the above the pure teaching on the law of Grace? That if one asked for 10 dollars we ought to give more than what is demanded?

It is so clear...if we are truly under grace, we ought to give more than what is demanded.

So may I ask, why are we fighting over that 10% and give reasons NOT TO GIVE or TO GIVE WHAT THE HEART IS IMPRESSED?

May I know a heart that is not convinced of God's providence, would he or she give more than the 10% under the law of grace? Search your heart!

If we are not faithful with the little, how can we be faithful with much?

God graciously provides Jesus as the sacrifice on the cross to give us a hope and a future, to bless us and not to harm us (Jer 29:11)

Let's give the tithe with THANKGIVING of the heart. If we worry about how the church is using the fund, we are not faithful that Jesus has the power to govern His own church. If we feel that the church is blackmailing the congregation, then leave the church and search for one that preaches the true intention of the act of tithing.

God is a generous God who cares more for your heart than your money!

Prosperity Gospel: Part 3

Deuteronomy 8:18
18“And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.”

Remember that it is God that give me the power to get wealth.

Hmmm... I just realised that my previous posts highlighted the attitude towards a God that provides alot of things including wealth: the attitude of thanksgiving.

So why God wants to give us wealth? So that God can establish His covenant with us. No wonder Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are given wealth despite their lack of faith during their life time (read: their stories of protecting their own skins because of Kings wanting their respective wives, therefore not showing the power of God's protection). Put it another way, God uses wealth (and also health) to prove (establish) His promises (covenant) to His people.

I believe there are other ways for God to show His covenant to His people including the church. And granting wealth is one of them. What Moses is teaching here is that we should have a spirit of contentment and thanksgiving by remember the hand that feeds us.

Prosperity Gospel got its root because the Bible did teach that wealth is given to believers by God. What is scary is not the Gospel of receiving the blessings (prosperity), what we ought to be weary of is the attitude behind the prosperity gospel.

This is exactly what Deut 8:18 is trying to teach: Wealth is given by God so Do not forget God. Do not take Him for Granted. Do not treat Him like Your Genie.

Lina Joy: Contemplating the Truthfulness of Religion

Being following the saga involving a malay ethnic woman named Lina Joy because of her choice to leave Islam for Christianity. Was reading one of those articles when it came to this part on why Lina Joy's case in the Malaysian Courts cannot win.

"If Islam were to grant permission for Muslims to change religion at will,
it would imply it has no dignity, no self-esteem," said Wan Azhar Wan Ahmad,
senior fellow at Malaysia's Institute of Islamic Understanding.

"And people may then question its completeness, truthfulness and
perfection." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060813/wl_nm/religion_malaysia_dc)

Let me ask a question: By the fact that a person who could not think for him or herself right after birth is being given a responsibility of being a muslim, is that fair in the first place? I think this point would have been put forth by a lot of people opposing to the idea that a person is believing in something without the capacity to .

Dignity: the quality of being worthy of esteem or respect

No one comes to this world without the basic dignity or respect to be a human being. Even animals are given their space to bear their off spring. So this point is a universal right for all living things on this planet.

On the other hand, religion or the knowledge of God or the unseen power has to be revealed by the powers above or by the minds of 'enlightened' persons be it real or not and it is not given automatically at birth since we need mental capacity to weigh in on the right or wrong of what is proposed.

However we do have something when we are born that of the state of conscience and justice which the young do possess. How come? Because if the Bible is to be believed, the eating of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

So the question remains that all religion has to earn respect by being able to prove that it is real with our conscience and God-given intelligence to test the teachings. If a belief system is forced upon since birth, then it only goes to show one thing: the proponents who used the law to protect a religion thus exposing the fact that they are not confident in the belief system to proof itself to unbelievers. In other words, they trust more in their efforts to promote God than to allow God to promote Himself; or to say that God is impotent at worse or ineffective at best.

Faith of course is important for a belief system to work. People need to be taught and known of something before a faith the size of a small seed can even be planted. Faith and thus belief needed some sort of convincing first by the subject before it is given.

Imagine that we are born with the belief that McDonalds is the best food in the world. So I ate Big Mac since the day I was born being force by parents to eat it since I do not have the opportunity to try other food nor have the money to buy (since parents put the food on the table). Wouldn't that be sad since there are other good food around? (Malaysians and Singaporeans should know this: Hawker food to me is better than fast food anytime unless the hawker is really crappy).

Things out there can have multiple favourites amongst people. However with regards to law and justice, and definitely in the realm of spirituality, TRUTH has to be the yardstick. But TRUTH has to be proven, has to be tested and then believed by the tester and the truth that survives on its own is worthy to be believed.

If the social climate does not even allow the space to even test and then make the decision to a belief system, then what kind of dignity does the social climate possess? If people enjoy the freedom to make the choice of the food they want to eat, then the more important stuff such as spiritual belief must be given the opportunity to be chosen.

By hiding behind the law to force people to believe in something is just showing, contrary to popular belief, a lack of faith in the belief system that can convince people otherwise. It is precisely because a belief system that cannot survive questions on its completeness, truthfulness and perfection that needed human beings and human initiated laws to protect the belief system.

If one is so convinced of a belief, then that belief should be able to stand up to scrutiny. And the belief that can stand up to scrutiny, earn the right to be believed, and whoever believes will have stronger faith since the belief system can stand on its own 2 feet.

In short, a belief system that needed the law to justify its existence do not speak much of the god it is proposing since that god is powerless to convince human beings supernaturally.

That's the reason why I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That's the reason why I believe in Jesus being the true Son of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Why? Because Jesus is able to proof Himself again and again without the help of the law. Evidence? Lina Joy can believe in Christ despite the law of the land: that speaks the power of the true God.

Prosperity Gospel Part Deux

Josh have some replies and feels that it is not really answering his questions. So I tried again...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Josh,

I believe we are on the same page, it just that it was not presented in a way to show some common grounds. I think I will answer through your reply. Perhaps that would help more.

"However, I believe when I mention "health & wealth" and the "prosperity gospel" i'm speaking specifically about particular people who have the Jesus-Genie mentality that if they pray hard enough, or demand God (in Jesus' Name) to bless them with a new house, new car, fill in the blank... that they will receive what they ask because they are 1) strong believers 2) lean on Jesus' promise to give them what they desire. If they don't receive it, they didn't have enough faith."

If we really study the Gospels, the level of faith is only accorded by God. Like the woman in Matthew 9:18. She just think that if she can touch Jesus cloak, she will be healed. She did not say, "my faith is very high, so that I will be healed if I touched His cloak". No, Jesus accorded the level of faith to her as He did to Abraham (Romans 4:9), as He did to the Gentile woman (Matt 15) and as He did to the Centurion (Luke 7). What am I trying to say is that we can never judge our level of faith correctly, only a just judge, God, who can do that the best. So to base our blessings accordance to our level of faith through our own judgement is both fruitless and unnecessary.

Why am I saying the above? Our Abba in Heaven treats us even better than how our own earthly fathers treats us despite the level of faith that we have. We just need faith the size of a small seed is enough for God to move mountains for us. In short we do not need much so why compare level of faith to the level of blessings? Just know God blesses because He is a good God (even the word 'good', hebrew 'tob' have meanings of prosperity within it).

The issue now is the how we treat of the gospel of good news (which include prosperity and peace which I have explained in my last post).

The best way for me to illustrate is using the relationship between our children and parents (I do not have children but I can understand because I see how my mother treats me). If my kid ask me to get a toy because I said I will bless her with something, me being a parent would assess the situation by looking at the toy and see if it is ok (maybe I get lego blocks instead of a toy gun for example). If the toy is not ok, I will not give but does not mean I will not bless.

Now if my kid thinks that I am a selfish dad because I did not give the toy he asked, does that mean I am not generous? Now apply the same question to us asking God for favours, do you think He will give?

Our Father definitely will give what we ask. But how He gives will be up to Him to dictate. I asked for a car at the present moment, but He feels that it is not the time because somehow I am not comfortable or my situation do not merit it. Does that mean God is mean?

Now the issue, as you have put very well, is our attitude towards a generous God. Before I continue, I must comment that in this argument against prosperity Gospel it is very easy to malign the character of God so much so that the opponents of such a 'gospel' would say that blessings is not for Christians (it is extreme but it came across as such). I must emphasize that God is out to bless us abundantly and without limits just because He sees us righteous through the acceptance of Christ as our saviour. If we believe that we are righteous because God says so, then we have the faith to accept the blessings.

Now is a time for self reflection by asking some questions:

a) Are we thankful for the blessings from God?
b) Are we asking God for things just because we are greedy?
c) Do we get angry and frustrated when things are not going the way we want?

I must confess that I am guilty of the above before. But God still blesses me not because I deserve it but because He saw it fit to bless despite my weaknesses.

The opposite of course is also true: God still bless the wicked despite their deeds. How did God do that? He still cause the sun to shine on them, the rain to pour on them, air for them to breathe and a roof for them to sleep under.

If God do the same for the people of Nineveh when Jonah was sent to proclaim judgement, God will do the same for His children who is not appreciative of His Blessings.

So the main issue is our attitude towards blessings. Are we spoil brats who are not contented with what God gives us? Remember Jesus gives us Salom peace, which includes contentment. Without contentment we can never feel we have enough and then we strive to get more so as to fulfill our needs and wants. So with contentment, we need not strive but give thanks for blessings of God.

So the problem is not the gospel that blesses through prosperity and health. The problem is the teaching that we keep demanding things despite being blessed enough to enjoy contentment. If that's the case, then we do not have salom peace that Jesus will give us.

Remember the Gospel, in its true meaning is Good News. And the good news is that we are heir to the world in accordance to the promise of God given to Abraham since we are the sons of faith. And being the heir of the world means that what the world has, we have too. And in that essence, it means prosperity. So the fact remains that the Gospel is truly a Gospel about being rich and being in health because of a gracious God given to us through Jesus sacrifice.

We are in danger of misrepresenting the gospel by calling the teachings focusing on being rich as 'prosperity gospel'. I would call it 'selfish desires teaching' instead (for lack of a better title) or self centered teachings or brat mentality teaching.

On to Proverbs 13:21 Pro 13:21 (ASV) Evil pursueth sinners; But the righteous shall be recompensed with good. (BBE) Evil will overtake sinners, but the upright will be rewarded with good. (GNB) Trouble follows sinners everywhere, but righteous people will be rewarded with good things. (KJV+) Evil7451 pursueth7291 sinners:2400 but to the righteous6662 good2896 shall be repaid.7999 (YLT) Evil pursueth sinners, And good recompenseth the righteous. What I usually do is to take a verse and to see if I can find parrallel translation of the same verse (even in chinese if i can illustrate better). So as we can see, 'good' was being translated as 'prosperity' in the original verse. I seriously do not see anything wrong. We who are believers in Jesus are being promised well-being or good things. Do we experience upheaval? That would be a yes...but does that mean we are being given a bashing like Job? We may 'feel' like it but in actual fact we don't. Good in that sense is that God could have allowed calamity as He has given Job but He did not. In all things give thanks to the Lord for He has protected us from worse things. It will always be a case of 'half-full or half-empty' perspective, but Christians who are full of thanksgiving, will be of the half-full mentality. Now the next part: "I know some very godly people both in my life and also as popular, well-known men of God who have experienced tremendous pain and simply put, a hard life that looking at it from the outside in, does not seem blessed with health, wealth, prosperity, etc." "Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "No one is good except God alone. (Mark 10:18) How do we know if a well-known person is godly or deserved what he gets? Only God can judge it so and He has said the same thing to Job. But did the seemingly lack of health, wealth, prosperity alone determine the spirituality of a person? We of limited knowledge can never know. For this I know, God is good and His plan, according to Jeremiah 29:11, is to bless us and not for disaster, plans to give us hope and a future. We can never judge correctly because we do not know everything to judge right. If we allow God to be God, then He will know what is good for the people who are godly. Some judgements may, to us, look bad but to God will give tremendous blessings to the person in question. If we look to Job again, the result of his ordeal is a fresh and correct appreciation of God. Why do I say that? Read Job 1:5. What did Job say and did? He made burnt offering for his children because Job is scared that God would punish his children because his children may have cursed God. What is the picture of God in Job's eyes? What is the value Job put in the burnt offerings? Now if we turn to Job at the end of his ordeal, he cannot answer God because Job cannot know everything why things happened (we know because God trust Job's faith in Him to show Satan a thing or two about real faith!). Job accepts God for who He is and also the wisdom that God have in dealings with things on earth. God judged that Job's ordeal will improve Job and so He did...and oh one more thing, God gives twice the prosperity than before. So God will Bless us with prosperity and health but for some, through His wisdom, are to be trained through His watchful eyes and to many others, like the friends of job, would think that God is punishing them when in actual fact He is not. "My question to anyone reading this post... how do we understand the tension posed in my question in relation to this verse and all that the Bible has to say" So in fact there is really no tension at all because God's plans for us is always for good and in the good plans that includes prosperity and health. Even if we did not see with our own eyes now on earth through ourselves or through friends, surely He will do so in heaven for us who are in Christ. Lastly... "The idea that your health, wealth and satisfaction in life is a direct representation of your relationship with God is completely unbiblical and quite honestly, scary. However, I cannot deny the fact that often God blesses those He loves and those who obey Him." If you would forgive me, if you posed the same question to Jesus what would He say? The pharisees asked Jesus the same question to and how would Jesus feel? Scary? Why because Jesus is God's son? So if Jesus is really God's son so whatever belongs to God is Jesus right? So is that scary? You bet! Especially when Jesus has all the power that God has, even control over the heavens and the seas, over the demons and the unseen. So if God says we are sons of God accordance to the promise made to Abraham it is the same as claiming that I am a son of God through Christ, as Jesus did in front of the Pharisees. It would also mean that I have the same power of Christ who is in me. Is that scary? Of course it is! Because the power in me is the power that Satan is scared of. Why scared of something that is good in the first place? Unless you deemed the goodness of God of being 'scary'? So my relationship with God demands that good things in life is a given, is that biblical? It would be a 'yes' as I have shown through numerous bible verses unless you could find the verses that debunked God being an evil God that blesses us with sickness and with poverty. But my answer would be conditional. Why? Because the good things in life in our definition may not be the good things in life in God's eyes for each and everyone of us who believes in Him. The issue is who are the real sons of God? That can be seen through the fruits of the Holy Spirit. And if the real sons of God prayed for goodness and that includes health and wealth, it is the right of sons and daughters. if the prince of wales demands things to be done because his mother is the queen of England, would it get done? Of course. But to God it is different. He will answer according to His own goodness and wisdom. We as sons and daughters of God can ask according to our right standing with God and with the understanding that we are the reflection of the true, good, God (as all human beings are images of God). Our prayers will be answered in God's time and wisdom and ways. Some prayers will be selfish, some prayers will be for the common good, some prayers will be for the good of the family but let us allow God to filter the prayers and answer to His liking. One thing is for sure: the outcome will be for our good, done through God's methods! As Job has recognised the soverign God and not as his genie, I too have recognised my God as soverign as well and not my genie, but I will still pray for good things in life because it is my right since Jesus Christ the righteous, has become my advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1) . Our real attitude therefore will be seen through the reaction to the results of our prayers. My attitude is that God is God so the result is in accordance to His wisdom and plan for my life and I will accept them. If the attitude is that God should do what I say because of my right as sons of God, then it is wrong, plain and simple since such attitude runs contradictory to a soverign God..and worse of all, such attitudes shall never see nor experience the REAL good things of God. Do reflect on what you have put forward. If God do bless His people, that is biblical, yes? And yet in the earlier sentence you say that being in health and wealth and have satisfaction in life is because of relationship with God, in other words "we are God's people", it is now unbiblical? So what is your stand? Do consider because Right Believing results in the Right perspective of God and thus gives us Right Living with God.

The Prosperity Gospel: Good News or Bad News?

Was visiting GodFocus Community when the Administrator of the website, Josh, posed this very interesting question about "The Prosperity Gospel". Being a recipient of God's goodness and providence in a lot of things (in other words, I prospered under God's provisions), I think a response is needed. Here goes:

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Hi Josh,

I understand where you are coming from though I would want you to ponder the opposite effect if Jesus has given us Poverty instead of prosperity, sickness instead of health, foolishness instead of wisdom etc etc.

So did Jesus come to give sickness or to heal the sick? Did Jesus give bad things or good things to us who believes in Him, then and now?

Jesus taught us a lot of parables that told us of a God that goes out to bless. Let us consider these parables and accounts in the Gospels

- The Parable of the Talents
- The Parable of the Lost son
- The Rich Ruler (Matthew 19:16-30)

This is my stand: Wealth has its place in the live of a believer because it is part of a manifestation of the Lord's blessings upon us so as to give us a sense of well-being (or else how can we NOT worry?).

Any extreme teachings, that wealth is a Christian right and being poor is a blessing are both in error.

Consider this verse:

(GNB) For the love of money is a source of all kinds of evil. Some have been so eager to have it that they have wandered away from the faith and have broken their hearts with many sorrows. 1 Titus 6:10

And also consider these verses:


And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
(Rom 10:15)

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
(Joh 14:27)

And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
(Eze 34:25)

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
(Isa 54:10)

Now the word 'peace' here according to Strong's concordance is the word "eirene" in Greek (used in Romans 10:15 and John 14:27) and "salom" (Eze 34:25 and Isaiah 54:10)

I would say most people would understand the promises made in Isaiah 54 is the promises of things to come from Christ after the sacrifice on the cross as described in Isaiah 53.

Therefore it is important to note the meaning of eirene and salom in their context:

eirene: peace, harmony,tranquility; safety, welfare, health; often with an emphasis on lack of strife or reconciliation in a relation (to God, in our case).

salom: peace, safety, prosperity, well-being; intactness, wholeness; peace can have a focus of security, safety which can bring feelings of satisfaction, well-being and contentment.

For those that need to define the word "welfare" and "Well-being",

From Princeton University's Wordnet:

wellbeing: a contented state of being happy and healthy and prosperous
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


I think it is pretty clear here. Jesus meant the word Peace to include welfare and wholeness...that is health and wealth. We can be very sure that Jesus has healed the people in need then and has done so now at this very present moment. But if promise of salom is taken in its full context, wealth is also the promise being given by God.

With the above in view, then the letter to Titus by Paul said it very very well on how we should treat money: It is the LOVE of money that cause one to wandered away from the faith. Money itself, being inanimate, cannot cause us to do anything evil. It is how we react to money that bring about good or evil actions.

And also, going by the definition of the word salom is the word "contentment"!

Again the definition of the word contentment: happiness with one's situation in life.

Therefore with the above verses as with numerous verses that espouses salom or eirene peace in both old and new testament, I can conclude that health and wealth and thus wholeness is the domain of a believing Christian given by the Grace ((Christian theology) the free and unmerited favor or beneficence of God) of God. And the wealth given should be received in the attitude of contentment and thus we can never fall foul into the love for money: GREED.

So back to the main topic. Is prosperity a curse or a bad thing? I can replace the word 'prosperity' with 'money' since the intention is to say that having money is the basis of the prosperity gospel.

I would reply that money is NOT a curse or a bad thing. It is how we treat money that will bring about a rise in our faith in Jesus or to turn away from Jesus. I think I have to make this very very clear. Greed, and not wealth, is the culprit here for espousing the Prosperity Gospel.

It is important for us to know the difference because we, who are of and in God and God in us, is given Salom and Eirene PEACE through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross given by the Grace of God. To reject Salom in its fullness is the same as rejecting the gift of God in its fullness. If one wants health, then the promise of God will cover it, along with health is also wealth and wholeness and well-being.

For the recognition of the goodness of God, is the basis for our worship of God.

May the Lord...

Jehovah bless you and keep you; Jehovah cause His face to shine on you, and be gracious to you; Jehovah lift up His face to you, and give you peace (salom: strong number 7965).
(Num 6:24-26)


Wilson Wong

http://wilzworkz.blogspot.com

ps. I firmly believe that the principle of tithing (not law but principle) is the solution to be freed of our slavery to the love of money.

Retrospective: A Gift of God

Today just did something that I did not do for a long time: Google my nick 'wilswong'. This nick is unique because Wils is my first nick and my online ID for a very long time. Although it changes from Wils to Wilz, it still stays the same.

Back to the main content: The google came back to a post did out of desperation a long time back and was solicitating some Christian views about my going or staying in Australia and that was way back in 2004.

http://www.godfocus.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151#post151

My gosh, after reading through that forum and also the replies that I got from brothers and sisters in Christ, I just realised that I did what they are suggesting to do. I can only say that God did speak through them as I have being led by the spirit without looking back at the forum.

Time flies and when I look back, I can see that God is indeed good from that time till now. That my relationship with wifey actually grew stronger because of the wretching decision making process back then.

Thank God for being a great Father.